Why I believe in God/Jesus
Feb. 17th, 2005 10:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
yrieithyddMmm as I expected my response to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
atreic's Where does your faith in Jesus come from post? got too long for a comment (although not as badly as my first comment on her first religious wibbling post of the day did). So I've stuck it here.
I have a feeling that this might end up being hived off into my own journal because it is likely to get long.
Like leonato, my short answer is that I don't know.
Alternatively it will end up being very short as I stare at the screen and wonder where I might start.
The trouble is that there are various different ways I could talk about this and they're all needed.
As I've said in a couple of places on your other post, that God is is axiomatic to me. It is foundational to my world view, and not just any God, but the Trinitarian God. It's like explaining why I believe 2+2=4. It does.
But why is that my worldview one could ask?
Maybe I'm just indoctrinated, but then again, we all are! It's how it works. I was baptised as an infant and grew up in a Christian family and going to Church is what we did. I said the creed week by week and gradually came to understand it better and so believe it more. The liturgical year was an important part (and still is). The telling of the Christian story year by year. It was there underlying the worship and forming me. I have memories of attempting to be agnostic age 11ish and not being able to and it seemed wrong to reject something just because it was what my parents believed -- just because one's parents believe something doesn't make it wrong.
At 13, I was confirmed at my own request. I wanted to express my commitment to this. I had to respond to the claims of the Christian story. Church was always there as a teenager. I sang in the choir and was accepted there even if I wasn't at school. Intellectually I came to know more about God, although my spirituality and prayer life weren't strong. At university, through Church and the CU, that aspect was deepened even if the evangelical theology drove me up the wall. I remained sacramental and liturgical despite the people telling me that that was dead wood. I struggled with the fact that music I didn't really like and no liturgy was presented as the only way to worship God truly. In my last couple of years, I met others with similar struggles and we talked and then I came to Cambridge and found MethSoc and LSM. Places where I could worship how I wanted to and be committed and nourished. It was great.
I'm not sure that that explains it though.
To me, the Easter story is central -- Jesus, God incarnate, dying up the cross and rising again. If that is true, then wow.
And it makes sense; it fits with what I see of human nature. We do live in a broken and sinful world. Broken people break people. God reaches out and heals us. We kill him. He uses this to save us. Yes, we sin; we are selfish; we hurt others; religion is used for hatred and not for love. But God forgives and enables us to try again. And he goes on forgiving and binding up broken hearts. It cost him himself.
When it comes to the Resurrection. Well, no it's not scientifically proveable, but then it's not a repeated event and just does not fall within the remit of science. But Jesus being bodily raised is the explanation which makes the most sense of the facts. It changed the disciples. The scribes and pharisees couldn't suprress it. Maybe there's not much non-biblical evidence for Jesus' existence (although I'd like to ask robhu whether Socrates existed on that basis), but if he didn't how on earth do you explain Christianity? Did a bunch of people sit around and think it up? Why? How did it gain ground so fast? Why is it still flourishing 2000 years later?
The Mass is also something to do with it, but I don't know if I can put that into words.
Then, that's all been quite intellectual and not taken on board the spiritual side. There have been experiences, at Mass, the Easter Vigil, after Confession, when it's all been very real. Then there's this vocation thing. It's been there for a long time and doesn't seem to be going away. Maybe I'm deluded, but I'm in good company!
I also want to say something about faith and belief and trust. These are not primarily intellectual words. Yes, I think that Christianity stands up intellectually, but my commitment goes beyond that. I meant what was said on my behalf at my baptism and what I reaffirmed at my confirmation and at subsequent Easters and the feast of the Baptism of Christ. I have pledged myself to God. Yes, there are struggles and questions but I think that Christianity tells the truth about God, the universe and everything. It makes sense of it. I like Puddleglum's response to the Green Lady.
Yes, logically, the only position to take on God's existence is agnosticism, but logic is only part of the way in which we make sense of the world around us. Logic cannot prove love.
That's not exactly coherent but it's a load of ideas!
atreic's Where does your faith in Jesus come from post? got too long for a comment (although not as badly as my first comment on her first religious wibbling post of the day did). So I've stuck it here.I have a feeling that this might end up being hived off into my own journal because it is likely to get long.
Like leonato, my short answer is that I don't know.
Alternatively it will end up being very short as I stare at the screen and wonder where I might start.
The trouble is that there are various different ways I could talk about this and they're all needed.
As I've said in a couple of places on your other post, that God is is axiomatic to me. It is foundational to my world view, and not just any God, but the Trinitarian God. It's like explaining why I believe 2+2=4. It does.
But why is that my worldview one could ask?
Maybe I'm just indoctrinated, but then again, we all are! It's how it works. I was baptised as an infant and grew up in a Christian family and going to Church is what we did. I said the creed week by week and gradually came to understand it better and so believe it more. The liturgical year was an important part (and still is). The telling of the Christian story year by year. It was there underlying the worship and forming me. I have memories of attempting to be agnostic age 11ish and not being able to and it seemed wrong to reject something just because it was what my parents believed -- just because one's parents believe something doesn't make it wrong.
At 13, I was confirmed at my own request. I wanted to express my commitment to this. I had to respond to the claims of the Christian story. Church was always there as a teenager. I sang in the choir and was accepted there even if I wasn't at school. Intellectually I came to know more about God, although my spirituality and prayer life weren't strong. At university, through Church and the CU, that aspect was deepened even if the evangelical theology drove me up the wall. I remained sacramental and liturgical despite the people telling me that that was dead wood. I struggled with the fact that music I didn't really like and no liturgy was presented as the only way to worship God truly. In my last couple of years, I met others with similar struggles and we talked and then I came to Cambridge and found MethSoc and LSM. Places where I could worship how I wanted to and be committed and nourished. It was great.
I'm not sure that that explains it though.
To me, the Easter story is central -- Jesus, God incarnate, dying up the cross and rising again. If that is true, then wow.
And it makes sense; it fits with what I see of human nature. We do live in a broken and sinful world. Broken people break people. God reaches out and heals us. We kill him. He uses this to save us. Yes, we sin; we are selfish; we hurt others; religion is used for hatred and not for love. But God forgives and enables us to try again. And he goes on forgiving and binding up broken hearts. It cost him himself.
When it comes to the Resurrection. Well, no it's not scientifically proveable, but then it's not a repeated event and just does not fall within the remit of science. But Jesus being bodily raised is the explanation which makes the most sense of the facts. It changed the disciples. The scribes and pharisees couldn't suprress it. Maybe there's not much non-biblical evidence for Jesus' existence (although I'd like to ask robhu whether Socrates existed on that basis), but if he didn't how on earth do you explain Christianity? Did a bunch of people sit around and think it up? Why? How did it gain ground so fast? Why is it still flourishing 2000 years later?
The Mass is also something to do with it, but I don't know if I can put that into words.
Then, that's all been quite intellectual and not taken on board the spiritual side. There have been experiences, at Mass, the Easter Vigil, after Confession, when it's all been very real. Then there's this vocation thing. It's been there for a long time and doesn't seem to be going away. Maybe I'm deluded, but I'm in good company!
I also want to say something about faith and belief and trust. These are not primarily intellectual words. Yes, I think that Christianity stands up intellectually, but my commitment goes beyond that. I meant what was said on my behalf at my baptism and what I reaffirmed at my confirmation and at subsequent Easters and the feast of the Baptism of Christ. I have pledged myself to God. Yes, there are struggles and questions but I think that Christianity tells the truth about God, the universe and everything. It makes sense of it. I like Puddleglum's response to the Green Lady.
Yes, logically, the only position to take on God's existence is agnosticism, but logic is only part of the way in which we make sense of the world around us. Logic cannot prove love.
That's not exactly coherent but it's a load of ideas!
